Blackbird Sims / Milviz Forum Archive

This 310 needed a few tweaks to make it fly as realistic as possible (as most realistic FSX planes do).
One of the 'side effects' is, that if you don't have the realism sliders all the way to the RIGHT, she becomes more difficult to control!
Especially during the take off run!
That's due to the strong inital yaw that real 310 exhibits, but this occurs only during the initial part of the take off run.
This yaw moment diminishes rapidly with increasing airspeed.
If you reduce the p-factor etc by moving the sliders to the left, you are making the left yaw even worse and it will be constantly there instead of being almost unnoticable above 80kts.

So if you are experiencing controlability problems please check that the realism sliders are ALL THE WAY TO THE RIGHT.

Best regards

Bernt Stolle

Let me add, that with the sliders full right, the MilViz C-310R has highly realistic takeoff performance characteristics. But, I do admit that those customers who do not have rudder pedals and are using a twist joystick, or no rudder controller at all, will find the situation a lot more challenging!

I have flown Baron's, Seminole's, and even an Aerostar (plus my 310R of course). None of those other aircraft produce as much initial p-effect and torque on initial takeoff roll as the 310R does. So, we wanted to capture that unique aspect of this aircraft.

In addition, I've already received written feedback from three other actual 310R pilots who have told me the yaw on initial takeoff roll is very accurate. So, it is not merely my personal impression with just one 310R. For what it's worth, these other 310R pilots (and myself) believe this MilViz 310R is as well modeled as any FSX piston twin on the market. I won't say it captures every aspect perfectly, but I will say we tried every trick possible to get the most realism out of FSX.

Cheers,

Ken

But is there possible make a diffrent option for "Easy" handling, many payware producers are made easy handling option for their planes.
I hope milviz makes the same option available.

What do you mean by "easy?" If you mean elimination of all p-effect and torque, then I seriously doubt it. We tend to go with the philosophy of trying for accuracy to the real world airplane. That same p-effect and torque on takeoff is what causes the characteristic yaw when you lose an engine and is the sole reason why the FAA has separate training and certification requirements for a multi-engine aircraft, and even has a centerline thrust restriction for jets that have both engines so close together that they do not produce much asymetric thrust yaw (example the T-38).

That may not be the answer you were hoping for, but I wanted to give you what I think is the most honest one.

Now, if you are wanting specific feedback on how to fly the aircraft, please let me know and I'll be very happy to help in any way possible. I own the real N5077J, and can therefore offer some good help to fly it. As long as you have a set of rudder pedals and a two-engine throttle control system for your FSX rig, I am very confident you can master all the challenges of this aircraft, and in the process, gain a very reallistic insight into how to pilot a real one.

Cheers,

Ken

Well, i mean that i dont have pedals etc. i have learned use only keyboard system in FS.
Like the Dreamfleet 310, that is very easy handling, when taxi or takeoff.

If you can tell me how i can modify Milviz cessna to be easy handle like Dreamfleets cessna everytime when i taxi or Takeoff.
That information i want from Milviz team, id like to fly this plane, but everytime when i takeoff, it goes too much left or right side and then it turns away from runway

I hope Milviz listens this part of customers i present here and make this easy flight model for Cessna 310, i know im not only one here.
Im not going to buy pedals for my computer.

ToniH wrote: 1.Well, i mean that i dont have pedals etc. i have learned use only keyboard system in FS.
2.If you can tell me how i can modify Milviz cessna to be easy handle like Dreamfleets cessna everytime when i taxi or Takeoff.
3.Im not going to buy pedals for my computer.

1. Using the keyboard reduces realism a lot. In fact it denies you a realistic flight experience
2. you've got a PM.
3. I don't have pedals myself. I highly recommend at least a cheap twist joystick.

bstolle wrote:

ToniH wrote: 1.Well, i mean that i dont have pedals etc. i have learned use only keyboard system in FS.
2.If you can tell me how i can modify Milviz cessna to be easy handle like Dreamfleets cessna everytime when i taxi or Takeoff.
3.Im not going to buy pedals for my computer.

1. Using the keyboard reduces realism a lot. In fact it denies you a realistic flight experience
2. you've got a PM.
3. I don't have pedals myself. I highly recommend at least a cheap twist joystick.

Thanks, many my friends have Saitek pedals in FS, so maby someday in near future i buy Saitek system, i usually fly GA Aircrafts, so i need to move next level in FSX and start use Pedals.

ToniH wrote:Well, i mean that i dont have pedals etc. i have learned use only keyboard system in FS.
Like the Dreamfleet 310, that is very easy handling, when taxi or takeoff.

If you can tell me how i can modify Milviz cessna to be easy handle like Dreamfleets cessna everytime when i taxi or Takeoff.
That information i want from Milviz team, id like to fly this plane, but everytime when i takeoff, it goes too much left or right side and then it turns away from runway

I hope Milviz listens this part of customers i present here and make this easy flight model for Cessna 310, i know im not only one here.
Im not going to buy pedals for my computer.

We have never stopped listening to customers. But, what you want us to do is design a virtual airplane that no longer handles like the real airplane. We already have no choice but to facilitate limitations within the basic code of FSX. But, to then add additional layers of detuned flight models is something I do not anticipate. Colin Pearson owns the company and he may decide otherwise. But, I think we are dedicated to the highest degree of realism we can achieve within the limits of FSX and we put a light of sweat equity into it.

The flight model is integrated into the code of the aircraft, so I cannot tell you how to revamp the entire flight model. You could take a flight model from another aircraft, name it to match exactly the flight model we created, and put it in the folder. But, the results you get will be totally unpredictable and not at all necessarily achieve what you are looking for. You can tweak the actual aircraft.cfg file using a text editor and change a number of parameters, but it is complicated and beyond what I can rationally do here. With total respect, I would not endeavor to do such a thing.

Again, with respect, you have made your own choice also. You have chosen to opt against purchasing controls that give you the realistic methods of flying an aircraft. I really think you should not ask us to detune virtual aircraft so that the few who choose to fly using the keyboard are happy. That would make the vastly larger pool of customers who did choose to purchase joysticks, yokes, throttles, and rudder pedals very unhappy with the results they get.

I wish I could offer you something you would be happier with hearing. But, I have to be honest in addition to helpful. I may not have helped you as you desired, but I hope you appreciate that I have been honest.

Cheers,

Ken

Here is one customer that is happy about sticking to the realistic philosophy, its a simulator therefore it should simulate the real world.

It can make things a little harder maybe ,but hey, that's what it is like if you want to fly.

Ken, I did send him a PM containing a quick guide how to disable p-factor, torque etc..
If he wants to enjoy the 310 and it's possible to do, why not.
Maybe after enjoying the 'limited' 310 for some time he's more inclined to invest in a twisty joystick or pedals sooner or later

That's custOmer service. Thanks

bstolle wrote:Ken, I did send him a PM containing a quick guide how to disable p-factor, torque etc..
If he wants to enjoy the 310 and it's possible to do, why not.
Maybe after enjoying the 'limited' 310 for some time he's more inclined to invest in a twisty joystick or pedals sooner or later

Just didn't want to obligate you to work up personal flight models!

You're the man!

Ken

Thanx Ken & Colin, it took me weeks to find a way to get the desired effect into FSX as it took some head scratching and non-standard settings in the FDs.
Luckily these changes are all in the cfg file so it was an easy 1min fix by just resetting a few values to 'normal' easy FSX settings

I think it is really difficult to convey how much is added with rudder pedals, yoke and throttles. I went thru two sidewinder sticks then bought Cirrus logic yoke and CH pedals on ebay years ago. It was exponentially better. It isn't like the real thing, but it certainly adds to the realism. Since I do have a couple ratings, (just not current) I can appreciate the limitations of FSX.