Blackbird Sims / Milviz Forum Archive

Unique ticket identifier: 06EA387F-F100-0EF4-3ECF-EBE49A77BFCA

Aircraft: F-4E ADVANCED
Sim platform: P3D v.4
Operating system: Win10
Version: 180712

Order ID: 0041047975
Your order consists of the following:
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F-4E Complete Bundle x 1
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Does your system meet the sim's requirements? YES
Did you temporarily disable your anti-virus program during the download process? YES
Before installing did you disable UAC. (User Account Control)? YES
Did you install, and are you running the sim as an admin? YES
Before running the sim did you make sure the FSX/P3D directory is off limits to any AV scanning? YES
Does your system have the required distributables? YES
Is your video card DX11 compatible? YES
If applicable, did you disable any FSX to P3D migration tools (like Estonia) before running the sim? NOT APPLICABLE
Are you using an aircraft other than a Milviz one as your default aircraft? TRIED IT BOTH WAYS, STILL DIDN'T WORK
Have you installed in the root sim directory? I CAN'T TELL FOR SURE. THE P3Dv4 FOLDER HAS LITTLE BLUE ARROWS IN THE UPPER & LOWER RIGHT CORNERS. WHEN I OPEN THE FOLDER I SEE THE P3Dv4.EXE, BUT NOT THE MILVIZ FILES. I DON'T KNOW WHERE ELSE TO LOOK. I JUST LET THE MILVIZ INSTALLER PUT THE FILES IN THE INSTALLER'S DEFAULT PATH.
Do you have the appropriate SimConnect libraries installed? I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS IS.


Here's the situation.... I recently purchased your complete F-4E Phantom package for P3Dv4.4 and must say I'm thrilled with the graphics! Your staff has done an amazing job modeling the 3-D cockpit. The realism is stunning! However, I've spent countless hours installing, uninstalling and re-installing your software and I'm at my wit's end!

With the original installation, I was able to connect and start the GPU using both the Ready-to-Fly and Cold & Dark methods. Initially, the RPM gauges would indicate engines spooling up. I'd start with the right engine, as instructed, and attempt to ignite at 10 percent. Nada! Ultimately, however, the RPM gauges stopped working entirely.

Another problem is that the Engine Start switch only toggles toward the Engine 1 position sometimes. Occasionally, when I'm able to move the start switch to the right after re-launching the program, I can hear the engines spooling from the GPU air pressure, but there's no indication on the RPM gauges and the spooling quits. They're completely flat-lined! Other times, I hear spooling up, spooling down over and over. The only way to make it stop is to exit the program.

All of what I've just described is what was happening during the first few days before I uninstalled and re-installed the software several times. Now the program just routinely crashes to desktop when I try to start the engines. And, yes, I did make sure to turn off all my computer security/anti-virus software before downloading your product. And, yes, I have run everything as the "administrator."

I've read through the forum entries online and have gone over the operating manual and other other literature at least two-dozen times. I've carefully followed step-by-step the start-up procedures for both cold-and-dark and ready-to-fly engine starts without any success.

I'm not trying to be snarky here, but I hope I didn't pay $79 just to watch the canopies and tail hook go up and down and pop the drag chute once per simulation visit. I've seen your promotional video and other YouTube reviews of this product and it looks fantastic -- when it's flying.

I used to work on the F-4E's weapons systems in the Air Force, but I've never flown one, although I am a licensed pilot. I'd sure like to, though. So any "detailed, step-by-step" help you can offer to get this puppy in the air would be greatly appreciated!

Here are my specs:

Platform: Windows
Operating System: Windows 10 Home
Version: 1809
OS Build 17763.503
Computer: Alienware 17 R5
System Type: 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8750H CPU @ 2.20GHz, 2208 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s)
Installed Physical Memory (RAM): 32.0 GB
Total Physical Memory: 31.9 GB
Available Physical Memory: 21.7 GB
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070


Here are my various flight-simultion software add-ons: NOTE -- (*) Indicates third-party software loaded with Prepar3Dv4.4 during attempts to operate MilViz F-4E Phantom.

* OldProp Solutions - ChasePlane
* Orbx - Scenery
* SODE
GSX Ground Services
GSX Level 2 Expansion
Flightsimlabs - A320-II Airbus
Alabeo - C310R Twin Prop
A2A Simulations - Comanche 250
A2A Simulations - Cessna 172
GoldenAges Simulations - Stearman PT-17
Flightbeam - KSFOHD
FsDreamTeam KLAS_v2 (Airport)
LatinVFR Orange County_KSNA (Airport)
Reality X_ GNS V2
Flight One Reality XP GNS 530
Active Sky AS16

...Thanks in advance for your help!

First things first: If you press Shift+Z twice to get the fuel percentage, what does it show?

100 percent, wings clean.

I checked using the P3D menu selection for fuel.

Sorry, but I I'm exhausted from working on this for the last 14 hours. I shut down the computer a little while ago and I'm about to go to bed. I am typing here on my phone and I can barely see what I'm typing. I'll have to pick up up with the diagnostics later today.... But thanks for responding so quickly!

Next: When you move the throttles out of off into idle, do you hear a clicking sound from the igniters?

After the initial installation, I heard continuous clicking when I launched the Sim. The throttles we're already in the idle position. Moving the throttles to off didn't stop it. Shutting off the engine switches didn't either. Turning off the engine and generator switches did.

After reinstalling the software three more times , I can't recall hearing any clicking. When the program boots up and I switch to my cockpit view, it's dead silence. If I activate the GPU, I can't toggle the start button to the right engine, although it will toggle left.

In any event, moving the left or right throttle from off to idle position produces one solid detente click -- if the throttles decide to move at all -- then nothing and zero RPM. Mostly, the sim crashes to desktop at this point.

BTW, just in case it comes up.... I did a diagnostic check of DirectX. I'm currently running DirectX12 in Windows 10 and the diagnostic tool shows it's working properly.


UPDATE as of 2100 Z: I uninstalled/reinstalled the software for the fifth time and now I'm hearing the clicking you mentioned. It sounds like a bar-b-cue ignitor with its button held down. It's makes a repetitive "tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk" sound. It stops when I move the throttles back to the OFF position.

With this latest re-install, I'm not crashing to desktop at the moment, but I only get one shot at toggling the Start Engine switch to the right engine. After the first attempt, I can only toggle the switch to Engine No. 2. And since neither engine starts, I have to keep re-launching the program to try starting Engine No. 1 first.

Also, I have a constant green APU cluster light, a yellow Master Caution light, a red cluster Canopy Open light and a yellow cluster light that says Check Hydraulic Gauges. I don't know what there is to check, though. They always read Zero.

Does your default flight start with the engines running?

The short answer is no. I currently have the aircraft defaulted to Cold & Dark

Here is the sequence I just went through in response to your last question:

I rebooted my computer, launched P3D and loaded my default aircraft, the Flighsimlabs A320-II Airbus. I then selected the Milviz F-4E Phantom from my drop-down list of aircraft and loaded it. When I switched to the F-4's cockpit view, the Engine Master switches, Generator switches and Throttles were all in the off position. The engines were NOT running. The aircraft was Cold & Dark.

I then turned on the GPU and Engine Master switches. I moved the Generator Switches to EXT. I then moved the Right Engine Throttle to idle and heard the clicking. I retarded that throttle and the clicking stopped. I next moved the Left Engine Throttle to the idle position and the clicking started again. I then retarded the throttle and the clicking stopped.

I did NOT try to start the engine during this particular sequence.

As noted in my previous post, there were several cluster lights illuminated while the Engine Master and Generator switches were on and the GPU was running, including the APU, Canopy Open, Check Hydraulic Gauges, Inertial Nav, Pitch Aug Off and Static Corr warning lights. I was able to extinguish the Pitch Aug Off and Static Corr lights by flipping their respective switches.

If your default flight doesn’t have running engines then that can interfere with the start process.

Are you selecting the air source?

You need the GPU present AND air source enabled (add-ons menu).

Also, if the GPU is present then it's intended that cartridge start is not selected.

Try the engines start without the GPU present, this should start engines too...at least you should see a lot of smoke

I finally got the engines started, flew the aircraft and landed back where I started.

I did this by following your instruction to load my P3D default aircraft with the "engines started" before switching vehicles to the F-4E. I was able to start both engines from the Cold & Dark status, taxi to the runway, take off, fly, return and land -- but only once! Now I can't replicate the same start-up process because the Signal External Air Flow menu item in the Add-ons is not working now.

Also.... While I was able to fly for a few minutes the one time, joystick inputs were unusually hypersensitive. I mean, really, really hypersensitive -- as in moving the stick 1/16 of an inch and the aircraft started bobbing up/down/right and left. Straight and level flight was extremely difficult to maintain.

Aslo.... I got the MilViz Add-On Management System with my complete ADV download, but I haven't found anything resembling the Milviz Phantom II Desktop ACM & (taskbar Load-out Manager), which, judging by the images and descriptions that came in the documentation with my download, appears to offer more configuration options for set-ups with multiple controllers. Either my MilViz F-4E-II ADV did not come with that software or I'm just not finding it among the bundled software I downloaded....

At any rate, this whole process has just been one giant aggravation!!!!!! I'm not interested in becoming a proficient aerial combat pilot. I just want to be able to start the engines and fly the airplane without needing an aeronautical-engineering or computer-science degree just to get the sim running right....

The new orange and white MVAMS is a bit different from the old ACM, but has all the same functions. I believe we have updated manuals on the store page for the F-4. The loadout manager is in game. Shift+1 or 2.

2 questions: are your realism sliders fully to the right?

Are you turning on the 3 SAS switches? Use at least 2 units of nose down trim for takeoff.

Answers to your questions:

Q1. You asked, "Are your realism sliders fully to the right?"

A1. If you're talking about the MVAMS CSS sliders, my current settings are as follows:

Pitch Dampening: 0.80
Pitch Deadzone: 39%
Roll Dampening: 1.00
Roll Deadzone: 49%

If, however, you're asking about my P3D control sensitivity sliders, the various ailerons, elevator and rudder axis on my Thrusmaster T.16000M joysticker are all set to mid-range sensitivity and the null zones are set to the lower one-third.

Q2. You asked, "Are you turning on the 3 SAS switches? Use at least 2 units of nose down trim for takeoff."

A2. I've tried that among the several problems I've attempted to sort out with this sim.

I appreciate your responses. However this latest one seems to focus on flight controlability. As you mentioned at the top, "First things first." In this case, I can't deal with flight characteristics if I can't start the engines! The salient issue at the moment is my inability to start these engines EXCEPT FOR THE ONE TIME when I followed your instruction to start my P3D default aircraft engines first.

I thought that had resolved the problem, but unfortunately it didn't. Subsequent attempts to start the engines using the same process have all failed! The problem now seems to be concentrated either in the Engine Start switch or the "Signal External Airflow Start" feature in the Add-ons menu. In the past, when I used the Add-on "Signal External Airflow Start" and toggled the Engine Start switch to the right, I'd hear the engines spooling up but couldn't get ignition. Now I hear nothing but the GPU running quietly rather than the loud airflow to the fans -- and no RPMs. The engines simply won't crank either with or without the GPU hooked up and the Signal External Airflow Start activated.

There's obviously some kind of major software glitch or software conflict going on here with the start-up process and we need to get to the bottom of it sooner rather than later....

I mean your P3D flight realism sliders, not your controls. Same location where you can disable crash detection, auto rudder, auto mixture etc.

And since you are using P3D, please verify that your control input method is set to DirectInput, not Raw. Settings->Controls->Other is where you will find it.

OK, Jonathan.... We're starting to make progress here! I'm now able to start the engines consistently after reinstalling the program for the seventh time. I made it my P3D default aircraft and I've been able to start both engines from Cold & Dark with the GPU and "Signal External Airflow" add-on function. Both engines have been igniting fine all day today using that method.

However, when I switched to the "Ready to Fly" start-up procedure, one or the other engine caught fire during some attempts. Maybe you know of a quick fix for that...?

Also, moving away from the start-up problem, since I've now got a way to get this beast in the air from Cold & Dark, I'm dealing with Inertial Nav set-up problems. Following the procedure outlined in the MilViz guide, including turning off the Position/Function Selector and INS Alignment selector in the rear cockpit before attempting engine start, I can't get the INS yellow heat-up light to come on after I've inputted my position longitude/latitude and have toggled the INS Alignment switch to Gyro Comp and placed the INS Alignment Selector knob to Standby. I'd appreciate any suggestions you have regarding the INS set-up from Cold & Dark, since that's the start-up/pre-flight method I prefer.

(I think the INS may be aligning OK during the "Ready to Fly" start-up process, but I'm not sure. I was too focused on the engine fires. I apologize for not reading anything in the manual about fire suppression. I mistakenly assumed the button on the instrument panel actuated some fire extinguishers then realized it's just a fire test button. I'll have to study up on the fire-control aspects of the aircraft -- assuming there are any.)

Once again, thanks for all the help you've given so far. Now that I've finally got a few F-4E flights and landings under my belt, I suspect this aircraft is going to be my favorite once I've figured out all the sim nuances and work-arounds. And BTW, a former F-4 Navy jet-jockey and long-time Facebook friend of mine told me to tell you he's very impressed with what you guys and gals at MilViz have created with this aircraft!