Beaver behaviour on take off run

[LOELI12]

Hi,
I noticed, when accelerating on the runway for take off, the Beaver does not lift its tail, as usually taildraggers do.
Is this behaviour correct, or am I doing anything wrong ?
Thank you
Bruno

[Krazycolin]

This is correct. The Cg is very far back in the plane. This will be more evident if you have passengers or cargo.

[LOELI12]

Thank you; I understand it now.
Bruno

[StearmanDriver]

Hi,
I noticed, when accelerating on the runway for take off, the Beaver does not lift its tail, as usually taildraggers do.
Is this behaviour correct, or am I doing anything wrong ?
Thank you
Bruno

I'm not entirely sure why the official answer still seems to be that this is correct. Yes, CG makes a difference. But:

https://youtu.be/KHVfZx_MCoc

[Krazycolin]

Tom F is a REAL actual LIVE Beaver driver. Really for reals. Years of experience. And this isn't his first time at bat doing FD's either.

You have no idea what's in that plane, whether or not it's loaded, got some mods in/on it... There's no one Beaver type that fits.

I'm gonna stick with what he did.

[Krazycolin]

This all said, you are free to modify and or "fix" the FD to your hearts content. We won't stop you and the rest of the product will continue to be supported.

As well, do feel free to keep on pointing out the "faults" as you see them.

We will fix what we can if we can and, if, of course, we feel that they are actually wrong.

I may be "difficult", but I do what I can to make the best possible products.

[StearmanDriver]

Colin,

I love the plane. It's easily become my go-to single to fly in the sim. I'm not trying to bash your model.

I also absolutely understand your decision to stick with the word of the guy with Beaver time over the guy without it.

That said, there is plenty of available video evidence to contradict the notion that a Beaver can't stand up sprightly on the mains for takeoff, just like in that video. I also watch it myself with some regularity. Sure, weight and CG play a part, but can you replicate that kind of performance in the MV Beaver, at any weight or load? And what kind of STOL (or other type of) mod would affect this? I can't really think of one; nothing that wouldn't put the plane into the experimental category, anyway.

The problem seems to be a lack of influence of propwash over the elevator. If I remember right, Tom acknowledged this in another thread by saying that the sim doesn't natively model propwash - which is probably true, but what then needs to be inferred is that MV chose not to model it themselves the way other payware taildragger devs have done. Which is of course your prerogative and doesn't change the fact that this is still a great sim plane... I'm just saying, let's be honest about it. A stock Beaver with a decently forward CG definitely can and typically ( based on what I see at Lake Hood strip, when TODA is not an issue) does do wheel takeoffs.

[Krazycolin]

We're not doing accusing here. That would cost another 30 bucks.

If what you're looking for is for me to say you're right, you won't get it.

Again, you're welcome to mess with the fd. For now, it stays the way it is. If you can convince Tom to revisit, please feel free.

[StearmanDriver]

Sigh. I'm not trying to be "right". I couldn't care less about being "right". And I'm not trying to accuse anyone of anything, though it's cool that you'd let me for another $30. You guys ARE businessmen.

[Krazycolin]

Phone error. Accusim.

[Kalin]

I was the guy that started the discussion about the FD in the first place and in the beginning I was a little disappointed about this "issue". But after a lot of flights, I think Mr. Falley did a very decent job. In some conditions even fully loaded she raised the tail by take off, in some conditions even with full forward CG she didn't. Also look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-csSDpwcIus I don't think it's fair to judge for a flight model from videos because obviously, the matter is more complicated. And yes, It's pity that they didn't simulate the propwash over the elevator. Also, it would be great to lean by the sound of the engine... I am sure that a lot of us will gladly pay 30 more bucks for Accusim Beaver but it's Milviz business design. And we should respect it. I hope in next projects they will go this path because in some aspects they are pretty close (handling in the air, for example). Maybe some day we will see Beaver Redux

[Flyboy1]

Colin,

> . . . . .
That said, there is plenty of available video evidence to contradict the notion that a Beaver can't stand up sprightly on the mains for takeoff, just like in that video. I also watch it myself with some regularity. Sure, weight and CG play a part, but can you replicate that kind of performance in the MV Beaver, at any weight or load? And what kind of STOL (or other type of) mod would affect this? I can't really think of one; nothing that wouldn't put the plane into the experimental category, anyway.

The problem seems to be a lack of influence of propwash over the elevator. If I remember right, Tom acknowledged this in another thread by saying that the sim doesn't natively model propwash - which is probably true, but what then needs to be inferred is that MV chose not to model it themselves the way other payware taildragger devs have done. Which is of course your prerogative and doesn't change the fact that this is still a great sim plane... I'm just saying, let's be honest about it. A stock Beaver with a decently forward CG definitely can and typically ( based on what I see at Lake Hood strip, when TODA is not an issue) does do wheel takeoffs.

I agree with you StearmanDriver, here is the way I said it in the Avsim.com review of the DHC-2 Beaver.

Short takeoffs just seem natural, or maybe expected, with that huge radial engine spinning a 3-bladed prop with the oversized wing with drooped ailerons and those large flaps hanging down. Even though the flight dynamics may be spot-on with this MilViz design, the perceived long, tail low takeoff roll just seems long to me.
>>>>>>>>
I do agree the initial FDE is tail heavy and feels somewhat sluggish on the takeoff roll using regular or Tundra tires. With flaps set for Takeoff, holding the brakes and bringing the big 985 up to takeoff power, when I first start moving it feels like I am dragging an anchor for the first few hundred feet. As speed builds up to 60 mph or so, the controls feel a little lighter to me and I am able to use forward elevator pressure to bring the tail up to level or neutral and fly off the runway as speed builds. Not that this is not fun, it just seems to use more runway than I am expecting.

Maybe the STOL kit mod will give Tom the incentive or opportunity to take a second look at the FDE.

Regards,
Ray

[Yardreamer]

Greetings
At first I thought the same I was all set to log a bug hence my first post...

But as it goes the take off out of water was horrendous but after a few runs I decided to see just how much of an issue it actually was. Well to my surprise it was actually perfect... Sluggish start amphibian check, well after 1600 feet I was well within the actual envelop at 75 feet.
Manifold, Rpm and Flap there there for a reason and need to be in balance
Fact one to this
Milvis DH-2 not Aerosoft totally different altogether and from actual experience improved. Well over 500 hrs in the Aerosft DH2 and looking forward to 500 in the Milvis ...please ditch the amphib as I don't fly the wheels that often float purest and I hope Mivis will take in account the less drag...
Dreamer