Blackbird Sims / Milviz Forum Archive

Let me just start by saying this is one heck of a great product, I'm thoroughly enjoying my time flying the KA! That being said, there's a few items I'd like to mention as potential minor issues for a future update and/or if it is a problem on my end or with my use of the product.

Wrong initial turn stepping down from FMS NAV to HDG mode: Aircraft will often bank a few degrees in the wrong direction if HDG bug is set off the current track and HDG is selected.

Prop lever input-result delay: Intended or not, when doing the GND IDLE STOP test at 1500rpm, moving the prop levers to just above feather the RPM does not change for at least 1-3 seconds after having set the levers in the right position. There's also a delay, in flight or not, when using CTR+F1 to snap prop to the lowest non-feather postion. The change doesn't register until nudging the levers a notch with either mouse or F3.

ENVIR BLEED AIR switch: Moving it between certain positions in flight induces a 1000fpm cabin climb/descend rate.

FMS POS INIT: After setting the intial position with right side LSK 4, a FMS caution persists until clicking right LSK 5 twice to copy and paste the position once more.

After shutting down and starting up for leg 2, the TUNE page appears out of sync with the radio panel, i.e frequencies, squawk, and TCAS settings indicates different things on the two. For VATSIM/SimConnect purposes, it seems the radio panel is the one which displays correct information (which is what was set before turning the avionics off)

Amend route after STAR insertion: Planned a short flight with SID and STAR, with only direct leg and one airway leg between the SID and STAR point. Was not able to amend the route in any way that made me able to add an airway, only without a STAR was this possible for me.

ILS issues after "LOC will be tuned" FMS function starts: I don't like the FMS to control when I swap nav sources, so I typically ignore this function and set NAV1 manually for the ILS. Sometimes, the clash of function and stubborn idiot will result in NAV1 identifying NAV1 being able to identify the ILS station, but recieve no ILS info at all. In this particular case I tried NAV2 instead with the same info and it showed LOC info but no GS indication, however the AP was utterly unable to establish on the LOC when NAV2 was used as a source, so my planned ILS resulted in a handflown LOC approach. Picture on final-ish with nav1 selected: https://i.imgur.com/QIPc4QY.png

Hi,

Regarding your comments:

Wrong initial turn stepping down from FMS NAV to HDG mode: Aircraft will often bank a few degrees in the wrong direction if HDG bug is set off the current track and HDG is selected.

HDG mode is P3D default autopilot and yes, sometimes it does that. It's a known behavior.

Prop lever input-result delay: Intended or not, when doing the GND IDLE STOP test at 1500rpm, moving the prop levers to just above feather the RPM does not change for at least 1-3 seconds after having set the levers in the right position.

Yes, that's correct. Prop adjustment is slower in this case as the actual full range is now only 50-100 rpms wide (1500-1550 to 1450).

There's also a delay, in flight or not, when using CTR+F1 to snap prop to the lowest non-feather postion. The change doesn't register until nudging the levers a notch with either mouse or F3.

Noted that. CTRL-F1 is a P3D default relocation, and sometimes it won't put it in the right position. We recommend avoiding to use CTR-F1 and CTRL-F4 as those are not quite realistic, they are included to be used more on the ground to adjust the props to flight's initial conditions.

ENVIR BLEED AIR switch: Moving it between certain positions in flight induces a 1000fpm cabin climb/descend rate.

That's an intended, realistic behavior.

FMS POS INIT: After setting the intial position with right side LSK 4, a FMS caution persists until clicking right LSK 5 twice to copy and paste the position once more.

That will happen when the departing airport is not the same that the last arrival one (FMS keeps track of last position between flights). Intended behavior for this sim version.

After shutting down and starting up for leg 2, the TUNE page appears out of sync with the radio panel, i.e frequencies, squawk, and TCAS settings indicates different things on the two. For VATSIM/SimConnect purposes, it seems the radio panel is the one which displays correct information (which is what was set before turning the avionics off)

Did some test and couldn't reproduce that, sorry. Perhaps you can post a video or a more detailed example?

Amend route after STAR insertion: Planned a short flight with SID and STAR, with only direct leg and one airway leg between the SID and STAR point. Was not able to amend the route in any way that made me able to add an airway, only without a STAR was this possible for me.

Could you post example pics on that route?

ILS issues after "LOC will be tuned" FMS function starts: I don't like the FMS to control when I swap nav sources, so I typically ignore this function and set NAV1 manually for the ILS. Sometimes, the clash of function and stubborn idiot will result in NAV1 identifying NAV1 being able to identify the ILS station, but recieve no ILS info at all. In this particular case I tried NAV2 instead with the same info and it showed LOC info but no GS indication, however the AP was utterly unable to establish on the LOC when NAV2 was used as a source, so my planned ILS resulted in a handflown LOC approach. Picture on final-ish with nav1 selected: https://i.imgur.com/QIPc4QY.png

Again, I don't quite understand which steps you followed. If you don't want a NAV to NAV approach then set the NAV radios to manual and tune the ILS just before selecting APP.


Thanks!

Tomas

Thanks for your replies, I suspected quite a few of these to be by design.

For the last issue: https://1drv.ms/v/s!Akcm6o33GGS8yFdcbTg ... P?e=FuQ1gr
Testing on ground, results are exactly as found in flight from A to B. Before adding an approach in the FMC, NAV1 and 2 behaves as expected tuning the ILS (except the CRS 1/2 wheels don't seem to be implemented correctly, that's not my issue though).

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Akcm6o33GGS8yFjBHtd ... t?e=3AKV0v
After adding the ILS approach, and getting the "... will be tuned" scratchpad message, AND the symbology of this having been done is apparent on the left PFD (blue Nav freq and/or blue LOC HSI), the ILS or any other nav beacon will no longer show course deviation, nor LOC/GS symbology above. It will however show correct DME and the identifier, so something is half working. Nav 2 will show course deviation and LOC symbology, LOC for NAV 2 can be adjusted with CRS 1, but it will not display glideslope information. Note that both the radio panel and the FMS NAV1 and NAV2 auto tune is set to off throughout.

Yes, that's correct. Prop adjustment is slower in this case as the actual full range is now only 50-100 rpms wide (1500-1550 to 1450).

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Akcm6o33GGS8yFp2L8- ... Q?e=IQyIXe
GND IDLE switch held, props full forward and stable at 1500. Using the mouse to position the prop levers full aft has a second or two delay between action and reaction. During the second cycle of the levers, the RPM reacts as expected.

Ok, interaction between NAV1 and NAV2 in both PFD is complex, so I'll try to explain the best I can.

When you have both NAV1 and NAV2 tuned to the same LOC:
-If NAV SOURCE is LOC1in BOTH PFD, BOTH CRS knobs will move the cursor on each
-IF NAV SOURCE IS LOC1 in PFD1 and PRESEL NAV SOURCE is LOC1 also in PFD2 (with PFD2 active NAV SOURCE in FMS, for example), BOTH CRS knobs will move the cursor in PFD1.
-IF NAV SOURCE is LOC2 in PFD1 and NAV SOURCE AND PRESEL NAV SOURCE are different than LOC2 in PFD2, CRS knob in PFD1 will move the cursor in PFD1 but CRS knob in PFD2 won't.

Cruise deviation only shows when enough LOC signal is present. Otherwise it is removed from compass. DME still shows distance as it is independent of LOC signal strenght.

Setting both NAV radios to same ILS LOC, with NAV source the same LOC in both PFD, will command a coupled ILS approach. You will see a double green arrow in FMA section of each PFD. This allows for the aircraft to continue the approach in case one radio fails or loses the signal.

NAV to NAV approaches are based on NAV1 radio as the command unit. If you don't have NAV1 available, you won't be able to arm the approach. However, you will be able to conduct a standard ILS approach with NAV2 radio tuned to the ILS and LOC2 as NAV source.

Tomas

Thanks for the explanation, so course knobs are behaving as expected, that's fine.

Taguilo wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:17 am

Cruise deviation only shows when enough LOC signal is present. Otherwise it is removed from compass. DME still shows distance as it is independent of LOC signal strenght.

As you see in video one and video two, filmed only minutes apart, I do have a signal strong enough to indicate course deviation, because obviously that's the whole purpose of having the aerial at the far end of the runway. Ignoring the fact that all ILSes in FSX/P3D have perfect accuracy as long as the scenery creator has placed them correctly, EGBB has CATIII so the particular loc used in the video is rated for rollout guidance in aircraft so equipped, i.e. the LOC signal is plenty for my avionics to show correct course deviation. Also, the issue shown is exactly what happens in the air, I just happened to be able to demonstrate it on the ground and that saved me time filming it.

The important question is, why does nav1 stop functioning completely (except DME) and nav2 stop showing glideslope information once nav to nav has engaged? It cannot be intended function to lock the pilot out of managing those systems. Can you disable nav-nav anywhere? Setting the nav radios to being tuned manually does not prevent it from triggering and locking me out.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Akcm6o33GGS8yQMmPWm ... F?e=bVaDbY
Here's the same issue from air, filmed just now. Note that left and right side PFDs both agree that 110.10 on NAV1 gives DME only, while on NAV2 they disagree with left side only showing LOC, and right side showing LOC+GS.

I am able to reproduce this fault every time by spawning on the runway, starting my engines, then following all the steps done in video 2 above. If I let the FMC auto tune and switch from FMS to LOC1 automatically, typically the issue will not produce itself.

Hi,

I'm sorry, but I followed the same steps you did on your previous on ground video and couldn't replicate your cursor deviation off situation.

See the pics:
I always got the course deviation visible, same as loc and gs bars.

I used default scenery in P3D v5.1.


Tomas

Interesting, thanks for testing. I guess I'll just have to be careful to always allow the PL21 to complete the nav-to-nav before interfering, as long as there's an approach loaded up in the FMC. I take it nav-nav cannot be completely disabled manually?

meese91 wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:07 pm

I take it nav-nav cannot be completely disabled manually?

Yes it can. Is what I did in the pictures posted above. Perhaps your missing course deviation is a scenery issue, or other not related to the aircraft.
I recommend you to check how it performs in other airports.


Tomas

I've had it at EGCC from UK2000 and EGBB with only the ORBX supplied afcad. And since all ILSes are the same thing in the sim, that would be even weirder I'd say.