A bit of feedback from a RW KA350 pilot

[markus.buensen]

Hello to the Milviz team and thank you very mcuh for your wonderful model of the King Air 350 with PL21 avionics!

After a few hours on the ground and in flight with it, I just thought I mention a few things which appeared to me (flying these King Airs in the real world). A couple of my points have probably been mentioned before or the team is aware of the issue, so please forgive me if I double up on certain things.

- with the BAT BUS in EMER OFF the clocks on the yoke actually go out (in RW);
- engine anti-ice should be default ON (parked aircraft) as it serves as FOD protection on the ground and is only switched off when reaching the runway, unless required in icing conditions;
- on the FMS it is apparently not possible to change the departure airfield (neither in active, nor in secondary flight plan) - both is actually possible in the RW FMS-3000;
- the RTU must turn ON when the GND COM switch is ON (providing radio functions to call for start-up before applying battery power), also the GND COM switch will illuminate green "ON" when active and will turn off automatically, when the battery is switched on;
- engine oil temperatures have been mentioned in other threads, so I just wanted to confirm that they do NOT raise when the prop is in feathered position and you can have it running in feather for quite some time (actually exhaust gases are more of a concern in zero wind conditions);
- the rudder boost switch should always be ON (default position), it is never turned off other than for testing or if the system plas up - the aircrfat may not be dispatched without the rudder boost system working;
- the panel lights only work (in the RW) with the Master Panel Light switch ON (except the Instrument Emergency Lights);
- the cockpit door should be default open;
- entry lights do work (in RW) with the BAT BUS in NORM;
- on the MV model, during the autopilot test, the trim runs in the wrong direction, it should run nose up, when the yoke is pushed nose down and vice versa (i.e. the AP is trying to trim against the pilot input);
- bleed air switches remain in ENVIR OFF (RW parked aircraft);
- the TRPL FED BUS always shows about 1 Volt below the GEN BUSSES, as there is a diode in the bus fed which consumes about 1 volt;
- on the right hand engine, the compressor bleed grills are also on the RH side (like on the lefthand engine);
- prop sync is default ON (in RW);
- on the FMS, apparently one cannot change the SID direction after it is selected once (I had to completely re-do the entire flightplan to change from runway 27 to RWY09 departures - although I could change the runway as such), which is absolutely possible in the RW;
- in the RW FMS NXT PG function will jump from page 4/4 to page 1/4 and not be stuck on 4/4;
- the FMA (flight mode annunciator) in the PFD shows selected angle (e.g. +10.0) in PITCH mode;
- the scale of the ADI seems incorrect (too narrow), in RW at 0° pitch the +/+10° are just off scale;
- on the FMA, the FMS mode will not capture below 400 ft AGL (in RW)

Ok, that are all my observations for now. I don't know if all of them can or should be fixed, but I at least wanted to mention them.

Best regards,

Markus

[edpatino]

Thanks. Interesting and in my opinion the observations should be taken into consideration by MilViz.
Cheers, Ed

[Taguilo]

Hi Markus,

Thanks for your observations, they are very useful for us to correct ones that are wrong and include those missings.

Regarding what's on my side, these are my comments:

1) - with the BAT BUS in EMER OFF the clocks on the yoke actually go out (in RW);

Noted. Will be changed for the next releases. Thanks!

2) - engine anti-ice should be default ON (parked aircraft) as it serves as FOD protection on the ground and is only switched off when reaching the runway, unless required in icing conditions;

In Parked conditions ALL switches are OFF. The idea is to let the pilot run the complete checklist from scratch. No changes here.

3) - the RTU must turn ON when the GND COM switch is ON (providing radio functions to call for start-up before applying battery power), also the GND COM switch will illuminate green "ON" when active and will turn off automatically, when the battery is switched on;

That is how it is coded, though was broken for unknown reasons. Will be working ok back next release. Thanks!

4)- engine oil temperatures have been mentioned in other threads, so I just wanted to confirm that they do NOT raise when the prop is in feathered position and you can have it running in feather for quite some time (actually exhaust gases are more of a concern in zero wind conditions)

I have different feedbacks on this. Being specific there is indeed a rise in oil temp but you are also right, needs the props running in feather conditions for many minutes (10+), and in warm weather. I will update the code as per these considerations. Thanks!

5)- the rudder boost switch should always be ON (default position), it is never turned off other than for testing or if the system plas up - the aircrfat may not be dispatched without the rudder boost system working;

See answer to 2).

6) - the panel lights only work (in the RW) with the Master Panel Light switch ON (except the Instrument Emergency Lights);

That's how they currently work.

7)- entry lights do work (in RW) with the BAT BUS in NORM;

Actually we are simulating this situation (from POH):

The Entry button controls the two baggage lights, the vestibule light, the RH Fwd
table light, and illuminates the ON legend of the ENTRY LIGHTS switch in the
cockpit Overhead Light Control Panel. The Entry button is constantly powered
via the hot battery bus. When generator power is not available, and the Entry button
is pressed, battery power is supplied for 10 minutes. After 10 minutes the
lights will turn off and the button may be pushed to initiate the timer again. The
battery timer is not activated when on generator power. The Entry button can
also be controlled in the cockpit using the ENTRY LIGHTS switch in the Overhead
Light Control Panel.

No changes here.

8)- on the MV model, during the autopilot test, the trim runs in the wrong direction, it should run nose up, when the yoke is pushed nose down and vice versa (i.e. the AP is trying to trim against the pilot input);

Noted, thanks. Will be fixed next release.

9)- bleed air switches remain in ENVIR OFF (RW parked aircraft);

See answer to 2).

10)- the TRPL FED BUS always shows about 1 Volt below the GEN BUSSES, as there is a diode in the bus fed which consumes about 1 volt;

Noted, thanks. Will be updated next release.

11)- prop sync is default ON (in RW);

See answer to 2).

12)- the FMA (flight mode annunciator) in the PFD shows selected angle (e.g. +10.0) in PITCH mode;

That depends on software version. Ours does not support it. No changes here.

13) - the scale of the ADI seems incorrect (too narrow), in RW at 0° pitch the +/+10° are just off scale;

I don't know which scale are you talking about, lateral deviation or vertical deviation?

14) - on the FMA, the FMS mode will not capture below 400 ft AGL (in RW)

See Ken's answer on next message.

Thanks again!

Tomas

[KenG]

14) - on the FMA, the FMS mode will not capture below 400 ft AGL (in RW)

The FGS on the PL21 does not have a limit for capturing any mode. The 400 AGL value is a pilot enforcement. However, it won't capture FMS (NAV) on the ground. I will check and fix that if it's not working properly.

OK, relooking this question in context. Are you talking about the point in which the FGS will change from HDG to FMS? (HGD green and FMS white using the FMS immediately such as on a SID.) All DPs are coded by the database provider (IAW ARINC 424 standards) to include an HA leg to 400'AGL. For a diverse (ICAO omnidirectional) departure where an HA leg does not exist I do belive the FMS will not provide steering until above 400'.

[markus.buensen]

Thanks Tomas and Ken!

Ken, yes, we are normally taking off in HDG with FMS armed (white) even on the exact departure track the FMS mode will not become active (green) below 400 ft AGL. Maybe you could somehow inhibit the change from HDG to FMS mode after lift off until the RA shows 400 ft? Just an idea.

On the other answers by Tomas, I am absolutely ok with your definition of all switches being OFF by default. Maybe there could be a future option to save them in the last position with a saved flight?

Regarding oil temps, yes, of course the airflow through the oil cooler is reduced with props in feather, but there is no operational limitation to the time the props could be in feather. I think if you reduce the rate with which the temps increase considerably, you could save both - normal behaviour and an eventual overheat, if somebody leaves the props running in feather for the lunch break.

I will revisit the lights, maybe it is jsut my download version, but they turn on the moment I switch on the battery, regardless of Master Panel Light switch position.

With scale on the ADI I meant the visible degrees on the pitch ladder. You are simulating an IFIS-equipped aircraft, although without SVS, but the visible pitch ladders would be +/-10° when the aircraft is at 0° pitch on the ground. Yours is anywhere between 15 and 20°. Not a big deal, but it makes IFR flying easier, if the pitch ladder has more space between the dashes. I am flying our Fusion aircraft next week, but I will try to get you a picture of our PL21 anyway.

Could you also have a look on the one or two odd things I found in the FMS (e.g. departure/destination change, secondary flightplan).


Let me just say that I very much cherish your work on this aircraft and let me also say that the implementation is already outstanding!!
Great work!!

BR,

Markus

[Taguilo]

Hi Markus,

Ken, yes, we are normally taking off in HDG with FMS armed (white) even on the exact departure track the FMS mode will not become active (green) below 400 ft AGL. Maybe you could somehow inhibit the change from HDG to FMS mode after lift off until the RA shows 400 ft? Just an idea.

I will put that option on the next release. Thanks!

On the other answers by Tomas, I am absolutely ok with your definition of all switches being OFF by default. Maybe there could be a future option to save them in the last position with a saved flight?

Currently they are in some way handled with Current Condition setup. But yes, saving and restoring those switches is being considered as an option in the near future.

Regarding oil temps, yes, of course the airflow through the oil cooler is reduced with props in feather, but there is no operational limitation to the time the props could be in feather. I think if you reduce the rate with which the temps increase considerably, you could save both - normal behaviour and an eventual overheat, if somebody leaves the props running in feather for the lunch break.

I have considerably extended the overheat elapsed for the next release. Thanks!

With scale on the ADI I meant the visible degrees on the pitch ladder. You are simulating an IFIS-equipped aircraft, although without SVS, but the visible pitch ladders would be +/-10° when the aircraft is at 0° pitch on the ground. Yours is anywhere between 15 and 20°. Not a big deal, but it makes IFR flying easier, if the pitch ladder has more space between the dashes. I am flying our Fusion aircraft next week, but I will try to get you a picture of our PL21 anyway.

Still not following you, sorry. This is a picture of real ADI and ours, side by side. They match almost exactly:

Sprite 27.jpg (74.87 KiB) Viewed 1908 times

Could you also have a look on the one or two odd things I found in the FMS (e.g. departure/destination change, secondary flightplan).

I will check it an pass it to our FMS team. Thanks!

Let me just say that I very much cherish your work on this aircraft and let me also say that the implementation is already outstanding!!
Great work!!

Thank you very much. I appreciate you kind comments.

Regards,

Tomas

[KenG]

With scale on the ADI I meant the visible degrees on the pitch ladder. You are simulating an IFIS-equipped aircraft, although without SVS, but the visible pitch ladders would be +/-10° when the aircraft is at 0° pitch on the ground. Yours is anywhere between 15 and 20°. Not a big deal, but it makes IFR flying easier, if the pitch ladder has more space between the dashes. I am flying our Fusion aircraft next week, but I will try to get you a picture of our PL21 anyway.

Still not following you, sorry. This is a picture of real ADI and ours, side by side. They match almost exactly:


Sprite 27.jpg

Markus,

This is what ours looks like with the ADI 3010E, IFIS, and no SVS. Are you sure that SVS is not installed in your airplane? With SVS is when I normally expect that Rockwell-Collins zooms the ADI. Maybe that feature can be turned on independently by maintenance, but as you can see it is not turned on in the aircraft we used as a model.

ADI3010E_NOSVS.JPG (1.13 MiB) Viewed 1888 times

[jwhill07]

The above ADI,,I do believe is the second generation proline 21 synthetic vision


Here's a link from collins, second link page 2 talks about SVS'

https://www.rockwellcollins.com/Product ... g-Air.aspx

https://www.rockwellcollins.com/-/media ... 0204172339

Also look at this video;

https://vimeo.com/393302813


James

[jwhill07]

I have a test flight in a few days so I'll have some video's for RNAV 16 and ILS 16 at KFTW plan on using 2 camera's.

I'm not sure about the 400 agl FMS thing you all are talking about, so I'll look at that to. Strange that I have tracking down to LPV min
like RNAV 16 KFTW 200 agl min. Is there a difference because of WAAS?

james

[KenG]

The above ADI,,I do believe is the second generation proline 21 synthetic vision


Here's a link from collins, second link page 2 talks about SVS'

https://www.rockwellcollins.com/Product ... g-Air.aspx

https://www.rockwellcollins.com/-/media ... 0204172339

Also look at this video;

https://vimeo.com/393302813


James

James,

It is an ADI 3010E and I promise it is without SVS. But, it is SVS ready should the customer wish to purchase that option.

Here is a straight ADI 3010.

ADI_3010.png (260.31 KiB) Viewed 1879 times

.
As you can see in neither ADI is the scale zoomed.

We tried to pick the most likely or factory standard configurations. It does not follow a particular FL serial number but, a generic version with the aim to meet the specific options that MV wanted to include or offer in the future.

[KenG]

I have a test flight in a few days so I'll have some video's for RNAV 16 and ILS 16 at KFTW plan on using 2 camera's.

I'm not sure about the 400 agl FMS thing you all are talking about, so I'll look at that to. Strange that I have tracking down to LPV min
like RNAV 16 KFTW 200 agl min. Is there a difference because of WAAS?

james

He is talking after take-off only. Not on approach.

[jwhill07]

With scale on the ADI I meant the visible degrees on the pitch ladder. You are simulating an IFIS-equipped aircraft, although without SVS, but the visible pitch ladders would be +/-10° when the aircraft is at 0° pitch on the ground. Yours is anywhere between 15 and 20°. Not a big deal, but it makes IFR flying easier, if the pitch ladder has more space between the dashes. I am flying our Fusion aircraft next week, but I will try to get you a picture of our PL21 anyway.

Still not following you, sorry. This is a picture of real ADI and ours, side by side. They match almost exactly:


Sprite 27.jpg

Markus,

This is what ours looks like with the ADI 3010E, IFIS, and no SVS. Are you sure that SVS is not installed in your airplane? With SVS is when I normally expect that Rockwell-Collins zooms the ADI. Maybe that feature can be turned on independently by maintenance, but as you can see it is not turned on in the aircraft we used as a model.

ADI3010E_NOSVS.JPG

Sorry Ken I didn't read your complete post about SVS on or off, I know I my KA it can't do that on ADI guess 1st gen proline 21.

[jwhill07]

He is talking after take-off only. Not on approach.
[/quote]


Copy that I guess I have never really looked at it, so a departure "SID or nav" will be a white line on display until 400' AGL?

James

[meese91]

Adding one observation here since it's an established thread with mostly minor items: Testing the GOV during runup, this video shows the RUD BOOST OFF illuminated as long as the DISC button is depressed, but in the MV version it just flashes briefly. I guess this could be a first/second level depress thing? Is there a two position function in the MV 350?

[Taguilo]

Actually it is not possible to test Rudder Boost by holding the Prop Gov switch and at the same time pushing the red button on yoke's left arm.
You need to first map that red button (AP/YD Disconnect) to a P3D event: TOGGLE TAIL HOOK. Then, when doing a GOV test, just hold GOV switch, increase either Power Lever until Prop RPMs reach 1500, then press the button of your joystick mapped to that red button. RUD BOOST amber annunciator will remain lighted as long as button remains pressed.

Tomas