Settings to comply with EU ILS procedures
-
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:09 pm
Settings to comply with EU ILS procedures
Hi,
From what I know, in the US you fly ILS approaches a bit different than in Europe. I'm not talking flying into a small regional airport, but one with airliner traffic. In the EU, ATC typically requests a minimum speed of 180 kts to 8 NM out and minimum 160 kts to 5 NM out. Later might even be down to 3NM in dense traffic situations.
Fortunately the KA350 does slow down when established on the GS, but speed loss is slow.
Just would like confirmation if the following is considered as best practice:
Intercept LOC with 220 kts
Intercept GS below 200 so that Flaps APP can be used for speed reduction if required by ATC
Slow down to 160 with Flaps APP to meet speed at runway distance as requested by ATC
Configure for final by Gear Down and Flaps LDG
1000 above fully configured and speed blue line
Slow down to Vref just before the runway threshold
Okay?
From what I know, in the US you fly ILS approaches a bit different than in Europe. I'm not talking flying into a small regional airport, but one with airliner traffic. In the EU, ATC typically requests a minimum speed of 180 kts to 8 NM out and minimum 160 kts to 5 NM out. Later might even be down to 3NM in dense traffic situations.
Fortunately the KA350 does slow down when established on the GS, but speed loss is slow.
Just would like confirmation if the following is considered as best practice:
Intercept LOC with 220 kts
Intercept GS below 200 so that Flaps APP can be used for speed reduction if required by ATC
Slow down to 160 with Flaps APP to meet speed at runway distance as requested by ATC
Configure for final by Gear Down and Flaps LDG
1000 above fully configured and speed blue line
Slow down to Vref just before the runway threshold
Okay?
-
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:32 pm
Re: Settings to comply with EU ILS procedures
Wow these numbers are very fast in my experience but I’m sure Ken or someone with more experience will give a definitive answer.
I’m aiming for 140-150kt intercept and just above blue line inside 5nm reducing to around 105 over the threshold.
What I am finding difficult is I was taught to maintain above blue line and flaps in approach until landing was assured however I need to introduce full flap to keep the runway in sight. At approach flaps and blue line I am very nose up on the glide slope.
I’m aiming for 140-150kt intercept and just above blue line inside 5nm reducing to around 105 over the threshold.
What I am finding difficult is I was taught to maintain above blue line and flaps in approach until landing was assured however I need to introduce full flap to keep the runway in sight. At approach flaps and blue line I am very nose up on the glide slope.
-
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:09 pm
Re: Settings to comply with EU ILS procedures
I know this is fast versus what Ken showed on his charts. But these are speed requirements to keep with the flow of jets and airliner turboprops. Sure you can always declare that you need to fly slower (as we did when landing with the DC-3), but ATC prefers you to fly with the flow...
-
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 2:33 am
Re: Settings to comply with EU ILS procedures
180 with the gear down is a little quick. One bump of turbulence will put you over the gear speed of 182.
Only very rarely have I been asked to maintain 180 inside of the FAF. Doing so would depend on atmospheric conditions (I flew a lot in Europe.) If the conditions were smooth then I would do as requested, otherwise, I would offer 170 as maximum speed.
Flying into Class B airspace I would normally maintain 230 KIAS on radar downwind, 200 on radar base, and slow to 180 prior to the FAF, and then 160 KIAS on final. Realistically 160 KIAS is still about 15-20 KIAS faster then most heavies with gear and flaps full down. Only the baby Boeings (E175s and E195s) would seem to be on a final speed of 160 KIAS inside of the FAF.
Once I maintained 180 KIAS until the MAP and that was because I was being followed by a 737 that declared minimum fuel. It was either make room by flying fast or be vectored off the approach. It was a smooth day and we flew fast. At the MAP we closed the power levers to flight idle and touched down on VREF. With maximum reversing and breaking we were off in a little over 1,000'. That just goes to show how much drag the propellers can produce when the power levels are set to idle. This is a huge limit of MSFS and the ESP derivatives. ACES messed up the propeller aerodynamics and developers are stuck with that. That being said you do not want to get too fast on final in P3D or you will not slow down in time. Despite being a Turboprop you have to think a little jet-like with this airplane.
Only very rarely have I been asked to maintain 180 inside of the FAF. Doing so would depend on atmospheric conditions (I flew a lot in Europe.) If the conditions were smooth then I would do as requested, otherwise, I would offer 170 as maximum speed.
Flying into Class B airspace I would normally maintain 230 KIAS on radar downwind, 200 on radar base, and slow to 180 prior to the FAF, and then 160 KIAS on final. Realistically 160 KIAS is still about 15-20 KIAS faster then most heavies with gear and flaps full down. Only the baby Boeings (E175s and E195s) would seem to be on a final speed of 160 KIAS inside of the FAF.
Once I maintained 180 KIAS until the MAP and that was because I was being followed by a 737 that declared minimum fuel. It was either make room by flying fast or be vectored off the approach. It was a smooth day and we flew fast. At the MAP we closed the power levers to flight idle and touched down on VREF. With maximum reversing and breaking we were off in a little over 1,000'. That just goes to show how much drag the propellers can produce when the power levels are set to idle. This is a huge limit of MSFS and the ESP derivatives. ACES messed up the propeller aerodynamics and developers are stuck with that. That being said you do not want to get too fast on final in P3D or you will not slow down in time. Despite being a Turboprop you have to think a little jet-like with this airplane.
-
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:09 pm
Re: Settings to comply with EU ILS procedures
Thanks a lot for all that sharing of experience.