Staggered dual engine failure on departure

[meese91]

Just flew a successfull flight from EGKB to EGGD, parked, shut down and replanned a longer flight with departure from EGGD. Filled fuel through the P3D fuel & payload window to just a few hundred pounds below topped up, started up, taxied out and departed. Rotation happened at Vr, and I did not oscilate in the pitch axis, and kept wings level throughout rotation. At about 100ft I heard two bangs on the left, and the left engine died. Weird, I thought, I don't have failures on ever. Established positive rate at ~Vy, gear up, entered IMC, and consentrated on getting up to MSA runway heading as that was a safe direction (well, any direction is safe from EGGD). 30 seconds later, two bangs from the right engine, died. Didn't really have the time to do any engine relight attempts, ended up gliding down wings level until VMC and landed in a field-ish.

Engine Anti-Ice was on, auto-start was on, engine paramaters was safely within limits at all times during takeoff and climb, also after the first engine went out. See the attached picture I took after getting down for switch positions, the only thing I touched before taking the screenshot was Master Switch Off. The AMS software is indicating left engine Average, and right engine Bad, even though it was the left one that died first. My P3D options have Flight Model sliders all right, Crashes & Damage off, and all three Engines boxes deselected.

Active Sky was in use, the cloud ceiling was about 200ft, but the temps were around 12-15 so icing shouldn't be a factor, and definitely not with the ice vanes extended. I believe I landed with the ice vanes extended, and never retracted them. Could there be a bug desyncing them from switch position during a ground stop? Also, I've looked around for a log file or anything of the sort, but haven't found anything. Please let me know if one is kept anywhere.

[Taguilo]

Hi,

The engine marked as BAD, probably was bad before the last flight. When it is BAD, chances to fail in the next flight once engine power is demanded are almost 100 %, despite a good engine start, etc.

The engine marked as AVERAGE has low chances to fail, almost like a real engine. I would say you had bad luck on that one...


Tomas

[meese91]

Thanks. The only borderline non-normal action I recall doing on those two flights in particular is starting the engines with the props full forward. I know several of the models in the PT6-range can start like that, so I assumed it applied to the whole range. Like in this instance.

Also, how live is the MVAMS? If I start a flight, and then open the software and check it, does it show the current state or the last stored before beginning a flight? And if the state changes during flight, will closing and reopening MVAMS reflect the change in state before the sim is closed? After posting this thread, I did try to start both engines at the location I ended up at, the turbines spooled up to a little above 20% but did not light, and no other parameters moved. After closing the sim (I did not recheck MVAMS after the test before closing the sim), AMS now shows both engines as Bad.

[Taguilo]

Once an engine fails on a flight, it won't start again until you reselect the scenario or close/run again P3D.
Oil pressure low at engine spooling is an indicator of broken status.

After the engine fails, just go to MVAMS and restore the status. It will start fresh in the next flight.

Tomas

EDIT: You can always start the engines with props at full forward, there's no harm for doing that.

[meese91]

So what makes a dual engine failure occur in the span of only 6 or 7 flights total? No severe icing, and with anti ice always used on ground and in visible moisture?

[Slayer]

Hot starts and firewalling the throttles on takeoff.

[meese91]

None of these has happened, though, I haven't even set power higher than 99. I've been scorned too many times in the Hotstart TBM, but it's gotten me into the habit of not wrecking these engines.

[KenG]

Seems to me the engine wears out over time. After a few flights, it looked like the left and right engine wore out about 5% of the total bar.

I am not sure how many normal flights you can get out of the MV KA before you have to send them to maintenance, looks to be about 1% per hour to me, so I guess 50 hours and go to MVAMS and 'have the engines scoped' i.e. hit restore.

I can't remember the M.O.R.E. interval off the top of my head, but 500 hours until a borescope of the engines sounds about right. So 50 hours in the sim may be about right as well.

[Taguilo]

Hi,

Standard engine wear range for normal flight is 100 sim hours (GOOD - BAD). It means after 100 hours, without addional incidents, engine will reach BAD status and fail in the next flight, when power is demanded.

So, as per Ken's recommendation, restoring engine health every 50 hours would be reasonable.


Tomas

[dbw]

In the real world possible/probably fuel (bad or not enough) would be a cause.

[henrik.bergvin]

I had an engine go out in cruise, with everything in the green, engine condition was at good (max), which makes no sense to me. Here is a shot of my panel about 15-20 minutes before:

https://i.imgur.com/GqmTNii.png

[Taguilo]

Hi,

My recommendation is to check your engine status in MVAMS frequently or before planning to do a long range flight.


Tomas

[henrik.bergvin]

This was on flight #2 (like, ever) and mvams was showing both engines maxed out green. There is no visible reason to me why the engine would fail. I’ve refreshed the aircraft in mvams and we will see.

[kimmry]

I have same issue my self, all green, engine power never exceeded 100% and still stuggering and engine failure..

Is it any chance turning this option off? Instead of quit P3D and then start it again..should be an easier way to fix the issues via FSUIPC or in the addon menu..

[henrik.bergvin]

I have same issue my self, all green, engine power never exceeded 100% and still stuggering and engine failure..

Is it any chance turning this option off? Instead of quit P3D and then start it again..should be an easier way to fix the issues via FSUIPC or in the addon menu..

Make sure you never change your in game clock when the plane is loaded - i haven't had a similar issue since. In addition, to turn wear off, edit this file:
C:\Users\<your user>\AppData\Local\MVAMS\Configurations\KingAir350i\Simulator.ini

Make sure it contains this:

Code: Select all

[CONFIGURATION]
left_eng_fail=0
right_eng_fail=0

Then set the file to read only (right click, properties, tick Read-only)