First proper flight impressions (bugs/issues)

[iangrant1981]

Finally got a proper flight in and I noted a few things:

Bug(s):
-Gear lever handle disappears at night with the Pilot OVHD flood light on

-Audio Panel still doesn't work correctly - can't monitor Comm2

Discrepancies/issues:
-During start up, light off seems to happen at around 20% regardless of when you move the condition lever. Not sure if this is correct. I realize that almost every other FS aircraft exhibits this same behavior but I don't believe this is correct. I don't know if the engine is actually lighting off but the 'poof' happens around 20%.

-Start up sound blending is a little off - seems you can hear the prop at idle RPM before it actually reaches idle RPM

-As already reported, there seems to be a lack of drag in flight with the power pulled back.

-Aircraft didn't follow LOC terribly well on autopilot

-APPR LOC1 and GS flashed well after capture... I don't believe this is correct

-During this particularly landing, as I bled the power off into the flare the props started to fluctuate and the aircraft yawed quite violently


Over all impressions:
Well, strangely enough, I've attempted four flights and experienced a CTD on three of them and yet I really like this plane. I think it's got a way to go but it is a seriously good foundation. I can't wait for the calibration tool because that should solve taxiing issues and probably my landing flare propeller freak out issues. I think as long as you devs stick with it, this plane will mature into a really great aircraft. Complex aircraft for FS/P3D simply don't come out of the box issue free these days due to the insane complexity so the glitches are expected and understandable. Hopefully the CTDs are eliminated and the rest of the rough edges are tweaked in time. I'll definitely be sticking with it because I've waited a long time for a high quality (modern) business aircraft.

[wells]

Thanks for the report. I am aware of the excess speed with lower torque settings. However, it is not drag related. Tomas and myself will look into it after the holidays.

[iangrant1981]

I'm referring to it as drag because you tend to get a lot of slowing effect from the props at low power. The airframe, I expect, is fairly slippery to achieve the relatively high speeds; aside from the effects of a straight wing of course. At any rate, it's that sensation/effect that seems to be missing when power is pulled back.

One other thing I noticed and maybe I am imagining it but the general handling seemed a little quirky/erratic at first so I decided to try turning off accu-feel for this aircraft and it seemed to be far more stable after that. I'd have to do more testing to confirm that but I thought it was worth mentioning.

[KenG]

Yes, the propeller dynamic drag effect, which is not simulated in P3D. That is my thought also, however quite some time ago I fully tested the FDE and found everything acceptable. Unfortunately, with each test build, there is no time to redo everything that checked off a pass before. Something crept in in the final builds that I did not catch.

So we know we had the right FDE at one point, we just need to get back to that state.

[iangrant1981]

I know there is some FDE voodoo that can be done to simulate the effect. I don't know how they do it since to this day FDE design is a bit of a dark art. Obviously you can't just add drag to the aircraft because of the knock on effect it will have everywhere else.

[N4GIX]

Perhaps a set of "invisible air brakes" that only operate under the required conditions?

[iangrant1981]

I know that's been done before with varying degrees of success. Certainly a viable option when done right.

[wells]

I will investigate the prop drag issue as well. The propellers are certainly capable of producing the drag, but they are balancing against engine torque, or internal friction.

[iangrant1981]

I'm going to fly it again tonight and pay extra attention to this aspect.

[iangrant1981]

After tonight's flight in which I paid close attention to managing speed during descent, I still think it's missing a little drag a low power settings. Mind you, I've never flown a King Air in real life so I'm making that claim based on two things:

1. During a standard 3.0°descent the power levers have to be pulled back into the range that initiates a gear warning just prevent an overspeed condition.
2. At lower altitudes during the same descent profile I had to pull the power levers back until TRQ was ~15% to keep to 200kts.

To my knowledge, most turboprops have no problem with a 3.0 descent and are often capable of steeper because of their ability to slow down.

I'm not sure the lack in drag is as bad as I may have made it seem but based on the two points above, it's still my opinion that it's still a bit too hard to slow down.

Regarding some of the other points I made:
-Start up sounds are fine and actually well done. I think I had set my power levers wrong when I heard the sound anomaly.
-Did an LPV approach so I didn't get to test the LOC capture again but it did track well to the FAF where I took over manually
-I was far more careful while bleeding off the power at landing and didn't experience the wild asymmetric torque

New observations:
+The PL21 is really great. I'm still learning how to use it properly but I really love it and think it's been incredibly well done.
+VNAV works really well! As well as any other sim aircraft and a lot better than the majority of them
-One new 'issue' I have is the inconsistency with switch operation. For example, the autofeather switch can be flipped up with the mouse wheel but not down and instead requires a right mouse click. This goes for many other switches in which some can be flipped with the mouse wheel, some cannot and it doesn't seem to matter if it's a toggle or three position switch. I'd very much like to see one method applied to all switches; preferably that they all be mouse wheel flipable for up and down motions and that toggles be left or right click and rotary/three-position switches be one click type for up and the other type for down. This makes it so much more intuitive and I don't have to remember that I need to right click to turn the autofeather arm switch off even though I mouse wheel'd it on.

[Taguilo]

-I was far more careful while bleeding off the power at landing and didn't experience the wild asymmetric torque

Hi,

That abrup effect due to assymetric torque might have happened because you pulled one power lever (or both?) below flight idle in the flare. If you do that while airborne, you are energizing the GLPS solenoid - a yellow caution amber light will show in annunciators panel - and the result is that, at low speed and approaching the threshold, props slow down to a point where they catch their GLPS and the effect is like a speedbrake was deployed, because of the increase of drag.
-This is a serious incident in real flights, and can lead even to lose contol of the aircraft, or land short of runway at the best.
-For this reason, pulling PL below flight idle while airborne is a NO NO.
-There are also special landing procedures in case the solenoid becomes energized in flight due to malfunction.

Tomas

[iangrant1981]

That abrup effect due to assymetric torque might have happened because you pulled one power lever (or both?) below flight idle in the flare. If you do that while airborne, you are energizing the GLPS solenoid - a yellow caution amber light will show in annunciators panel - and the result is that, at low speed and approaching the threshold, props slow down to a point where they catch their GLPS and the effect is like a speedbrake was deployed, because of the increase of drag.

This is pretty much what happened but what is strange about that is I'm currently unable to calibrate my throttles so anything below flight idle isn't available to me via my hardware throttles, or at least as far as I know. When it happened I did note that the RPM indications were turning amber with the fluctuations but in that moment I wan't able to actually read the values as the aircraft was nearly out of control. Both engines did it but not in a synchronized manner which is what induced the wild back and forth yaw.