Blackbird Sims / Milviz Forum Archive

Hi,

First of all, we want to thank all of our King Air customers for their loyalty and patience. It hasn't been a quick road to a release, and unfortunately, it's about to get a bit longer.

When we started the King Air, our goal was to make one of the most authentic simulations of the King Air that would exist in our simulators. We were confident in our progress, to the point that last year we decided to open up the doors and invite our customers along for the journey. Well, although the King Air has progressed to the point where many might call for it's release, saying it's 'good enough', we've had to sit down and make some very difficult decisions regarding its evolution.

The fact is, we're not happy with the present condition of the PL-21, nor the UNS FMS that is currently installed in the King Air. We feel that it's not accurate enough to the real deal, and when it's all said and done, we desire this aircraft to be *perfect*. To that end, we are completely dropping the UNS FMS and re-coding the PL-21. This will allow us to provide the correct FMS, the correct procedures, the correct look and feel, and in the end, a far more authentic and superior product. One that will allow us to continue our long standing tradition of upgrading and support well into the future.

However, with a change of this magnitude comes an inevitable delay. We were hoping for a release in the very, very near future, but the changes we've described necessitate a lot more work and coding, much more bug fixing and polishing. We've never done anything half-way, and we're not about to start now. Although we hesitate to put a number to it, we are targeting a window of 3 to 6 months for this extra work to be completed.

When we have a stable alpha version with the new code, we will of course be releasing a version to our Early Access customers to become familiar with.

Again, we thank you for your continued loyalty and patience; we promise to make this an aircraft worth waiting for.

_________________
Creative Director and chooser of planes.

I think this was an excellent decision. I commend your commitment to authenticity and creating the "perfect" simulation, especially when it comes to avionics like the proline 21 (I can't find really decent, well-done, complex avionics in a non-airliner, private aircraft for FSX). It will be well worth the wait! I can't wait to see what you come up with.

Best of luck,
John

I agree this was a very good decision and it is worth waiting for a really good and accurate product.

So I am patiently waiting for it.

In any case if you could provide any update or info about that progress that would make the waiting more "confortable"

Would it be possible to let us know vaguely where you at in developing the king air?

Thanks

Look on facebook...there's a video with the fms
https://www.facebook.com/Milviz/?fref=ts

Hi KrazyColin,

I was wondering if you could let us know how progress is going on the King Air. I've been waiting for a decent simulation of this plane forever. I'm so glad you guys are doing it because I know it will be such high quality.

Thanks,
John

I am wondering what the status of the plane in now. I know as a project manager where my projects are at all times as in percent complete. I take for granted that all projects are run with such efficiency. Some news would be great as we are 12 days past the 30 day mark of the last post.

Just some personal perspective.....

The PL21 and FMS are very difficult to model correctly. Everybody has tried and nobody has gotten it right, including Carenado. I think it's difficult because that system doesn't make sense in today's integration environment. It's not particularly intuitive, which usually means it is not elegantly designed, which usually means it's not elegantly integrated, which usually means it is very difficult to model in a different medium (a flight simulation vs actual aircraft hardware/software). I am glad I don't have to do it. I would likely spend most of my time fretting over how stupid the system is designed and not so much time making progress on accurately representing it in a simulation. As I said before, nobody has gotten it right (IMO not even close to right) and many simmers are substituting the GTN750 display for the PL21 MFDs and disregarding the FMS altogether. There are dozens of threads on the F1 forums where folks have done the conversion because the PL21 and FMS doesn't work properly including the newest C90GTX.

So....if it takes these folks a little more time to accurately model the ProLine 21 and the FMS....I am willing to wait. The other developers seem to have just done the bitmaps and released whatever they could do in a short period of time. I would really appreciate an accurate PL21/FMS simulation.

I'm curious.....In what way is it not intuitive?

JonathanBleeker wrote:I'm curious.....In what way is it not intuitive?

Compare PL21 with a Garmin GTN 750. Having never read a word in a manual I can use all of the GTN capabilities rather proficiently. It just makes sense. The PL21 requires much reading and study to use proficiently. Building a flight plan is really goofy. Changing one inflight is hit and miss. For instance, one must know where the PL21 will insert a waypoint should ACT require a deviation from the planned route. There is no indication on a panel where it will happen. You just have to "know." The GTN asks you where you want it. Simple.

The PL21 interface is so antiquated that Rockwell/Collins has produced the Fusion Touch-Screen upgrade because Garmin is dominating the retrofit market. The G1000 interface isn't much better, but pilots like the weight savings and the big screens. The best of Garmin is the G3000, which combines the large displays and global integration of the G1000 with the touchscreen interface of the GTN.

Pro Line Fusion MAY be the best product out there but few exist yet. Beechcraft is delivering new King Airs with it and R/C offers an upgrade to PLII and PL21 in direct competition with the G1000.

Professional Charter and Corporate pilots with years of experience with PL21 like it. But "years of experience" is key. Due to the intuitive interface in the GTN, one can become proficient with "minutes of experience." PL21 is yesterday's news (although thousands are in service and will remain so for many years). Garmin and PL Fusion are the new standard.

The new 350i's are being delivered with PL Fusion. Maybe MILVIZ would take that one on as an upgrade to the 350i. What a cool simulation that would be if done correctly.

Coming from a PL to the UNS and now back to PL, there are differences with the level of intuitiveness between the two. I found the UNS pretty straight forward with a little help from my copilot, but not the same for the PL as that required a classroom and CBT environment to really know the in/outs of the system. For the UNS FMS, I could just hit every button and see every page while flying circles for hours and felt I knew how to do everything little trick (ex. pseudo VOR). Same on the PL, button pushing works wonders as a visual learning, any questions I refer to the manual in the seat pocket. Knowing Garmin menu structure, one of the rentals I fly got fitted with the GTN 650. Wonderful box and again with very few issues, I could get my flightplan in on the cool touch screen while the engine warmed up.

Bottom-line, I still refer to the manuals/pilots quick guides to get the most out of the system regardless if I use a feature once. The other problem I have seen both here and at other developer's support forums, customers tend to not read the manuals prior to flying, then complain that something doesn't work when in fact it does had they read a few short sentences.

As with the models, research material on the Fusion may take awhile to surface, plenty of PL21 stuff out. I also purchased the C90GTX, pretty on the outside.

Pro Line Fusion information is available. You can purchase the manual directly from Rockwell-Collins and we already have the training manuals where I work.

If you are looking to find copyrighted manuals illegally posted on the internet, then yes it may take some time for that.