3 position flaps

[Kludo]

Ive opened the milviz control panel for the f-4e without the sim running set up all my keys saved them then gone into the sim for a free flight for some reason only flaps Out and Down works (Flaps Dn position on my throttle).

I tried it multiple ways and read and reread the documentation. The manager I am using is orange and white and doesn't seem to reflect the management panel pictured in the documents.
(The doc that came with the download didn't work so I had to google search for an F-4E user manual so the one I have is no doubt probably out of date. The one that came with the install just keeps saying it cant open.)

I have a Hotas Warthog from Thrustmaster. What I am trying to do is assign the buttons to the 3 position flap switch. Something that has to be taken into account with this throttle is that FLAPS up position is considered a "pushed key", Flaps MVR position is considered an "off state" key, and the DN position is considered a "pushed key".

I did it following the instructions the best that I could. I cant seem to figure out what I am missing or not getting. Ive tried it both with and without "on release" selected.

Forgot to mention this is the F-4E in the bundle for advanced/tacpack/etc.

Does anyone know what the issue might be?

[Krazycolin]

First, try using adobe acrobat reader to open the manual....

Without that, it will be exceedingly difficult for you to do anything.

[Kludo]

I'm using adobe the manual that came with the aircraft does not load. The other out of date manuals I found on the internet are PDF's as well and open just fine.

The one that came in the download is "F4E UG rev f2.pdf"

The one that I found on the internet through google is "MV_F4E_manual.pdf"

The document I am using for reference to set up the flaps is "F4ACM.pdf" which came in the download. It has a step by step process but the pictures show an older looking "module manager".

In any event, the "module manager" that comes with the aircraft is pretty self explanatory. I'm following the steps it however does not seem to fix the issue. As it stands when I load in the aircraft and place the switch to Flaps DN the flaps extend fully. Once I need them back or up it does not move.

EDITED TO ADD: I ensured nothing was assigned to the flap buttons in FSX, I do not load the TARGET software for the Hotas Warthog, I ensured no FSUIPC profiles were loaded for the aircraft. I made sure to save the changes to buttons in the "Milviz addon management system" before loading FSX and the aircraft.

What happens: I load the aircraft with the button in the "UP" position. I move it MVR (the middle position) nothing happens. Then I move the switch to DN and the flaps and slats fully extend.

Now that the flaps are fully extended and the button is in the "DN" position, I move the button to MVR (Which should have brought the flaps up some) Nothing happens. Then when I move the button to UP nothing happens. I have tried restarts, reconfigurations. I cant seem to catch what I'm doing wrong. But I follow the manual for the set up step by step and double check myself as I go.

[JonathanBleeker]

I'm aware of the warthog flap switch behavior from when I owned one and I designed the AMS hardware specifically with it in mind.

You need to use the Flap Set command in the AMS. For the middle position (Flaps Out), you need to enable both the multi button and On Release checkboxes. Then assign both the up and down positions to it. Since it is on release, the AMS will not throw a conflict when you set the up position on your switch to the Flaps Up and the Down position to the Flaps Out and Down command.

[Hamilton]

Ive opened the milviz control panel for the f-4e without the sim running set up all my keys saved them then gone into the sim for a free flight for some reason only flaps Out and Down works (Flaps Dn position on my throttle).

I tried it multiple ways and read and reread the documentation. The manager I am using is orange and white and doesn't seem to reflect the management panel pictured in the documents.
(The doc that came with the download didn't work so I had to google search for an F-4E user manual so the one I have is no doubt probably out of date. The one that came with the install just keeps saying it cant open.)

I have a Hotas Warthog from Thrustmaster.

Hello,

I have exactly the same problem since the F4ACM document reports to the old F-4 Configutation Manager. ie. " Upon opening, you’ll see 3 input boxes;“Flaps up”, “Flaps Out”, and “Flaps out & Down” "

It does NOT open any box in the new orange Milviz addon Manager System so how do I set? Tks

[JonathanBleeker]

You have radio buttons at the top to select which one you are working with.

[Hamilton]

You have radio buttons at the top to select which one you are working with.

Sorry,but I didn´t understand you,here´s MAMS and the manual:

[Kludo]

I got it working I was confusing the first and most important step.

Below is a down and dirty version for the hard heads like me:

(If you have accidently added flaps to the flaps:up or down buttons in the management system you need to clear those before you start. If you have attempted to program the Flaps:set button in the manager you will need to clear those also before beginning.)

Follow the below procedure step by step don't get ahead of me and you will see how this works. Its actually very simple but if your like me you are probably making some assumptions about keying inputs before you even get started based on prior experience with other products. Toss that knowledge for now, and just do it exactly how it is stated below, step by step.

1. Place warthog FLAP switch in MVR position.
2. CLICK the FLAPS (SET) button under Controller/Joystick in the F4 Milviz addon management system.
3. CLICK the FLAPS OUT radial button.
3. CLICK the On release and Multiple Events check boxes (They must be checked and show a check mark before you proceed from here.)
4. MOVE your warthog FLAP button to UP position then return it to MVR position.
5. MOVE your warthog FLAP button to DN position then return it to the MVR position.
(You will see something like warthog buttons 21 | 22 associated with this radial now in the addon management system. Don't worry this is normal.)

Now:

6. CLICK the FLAPS UP radial in Milviz addon management system.
7. MOVE the warthog FLAP button to UP.
8. MOVE the warthog FLAP button back to MVR.

Now:

7. CLICK the FLAPS: OUT AND DOWN radial.
8. MOVE the warthog FLAP switch to DN.
9. MOVE the warthog Flap switch to MVR.
10. Click save.
11. Then click save defaults.

It's a little hard to understand because the documentation shows the steps for a different module manager. I'm guessing its a previous version, not sure. However the steps are very similar.

Also, thank you milviz gents for the help in getting this understood.

[Hamilton]

Hi Kludo,

LOL I got exactly the same conclusion via trial and error and trying to interpret that old manual. When I was going to post the answer here I saw your nice post (Tutorial).

At least others won´t suffer like us to find out

Btw, could you map (assign) all weapon controls in TM Warthdog Stick&Hotas?

Best Regards,

Hamilton

[Richard Portier]

I got it working I was confusing the first and most important step.

Below is a down and dirty version for the hard heads like me:

Woah...Brilliant... Thanks a lot Kludo.
Regards,
Richard

[Kludo]

Hamilton,

I only assigned things associated with radar, selecting weapons, etc in the milviz app, everything else like weapons release, etc, I left configured in tacpack (2 stage trigger, pickle and some other small items are mapped on the stick from tacpack so they stay the same on all platforms I fly.)

Edited to add:

My stick is configured very strangely for most folks. I try to keep the same buttons doing the same thing between aircraft. It can be challenging sometimes to get the buttons to do the same things across all the aircraft I fly. But try to keep them all as uniform as possible. I use track IR so that helps a lot. With the F4 I mostly tied back seat functions in regards to radar. Stuff you would want to be able to quickly do in an engagement, moving radar cursor, selecting target, changing weapon types.

Some front seat functions on the other hand that deal mostly with air to ground stores I left un-mapped in the F4, because of track IR I can quickly glance and hit certain functions with the mouse. I have a little bit of a leg up on most folks because I'm an Aviation Ordnanceman in the Navy and really once you kind of understand how most Navy fighters are typically set up, most controls, switches, functions, and such aren't always in the exact same place in each platform but generally very close to the same area.

Sorry a little long winded.

R/

Kludo

[Hamilton]

Hamilton,

I only assigned things associated with radar, selecting weapons, etc in the milviz app, everything else like weapons release, etc, I left configured in tacpack (2 stage trigger, pickle and some other small items are mapped on the stick from tacpack so they stay the same on all platforms I fly.)
Kludo

Hi Kludo,

Ok, so would you pls tell me what you assign to Radar Lock, Radar Lock Half&Full and Air-to-Air button(See pic below). Thanks

[Kludo]

So on my Hotas, I have the 4 direction hat just under the pickle (red) button assigned to:

Switch left = Radar cursor left.
Switch Right = Radar cursor right.
Switch up = radar cursor range increase.
Switch down = radar cursor range decrease.

The next hat over that is under the trim hat (It has the same amount of movement ability as the trim hat I don't use all positions):

Switch up = select guns
Switch left = select heat seeking missile
Switch right = select radar missile (I commonly see the AIM-7's labeled radar missiles around some of the forums I don't know if that's a phantomism, but no sparrows ever used by the US Military is a full active radar missile, they are all semi-active (like how MILVIZ or tacpack if it was from them has modelled it) which means you must maintain a lock to guide the weapon to the target aircraft. This can have several down falls due to line of sight issues, but one way they have made the missile much more accurate these days is the implementation of a bull dog mode which the missiles goes into during terminal, the missile also uses newer software that allows it to "remember" where the target is and try to keep flying to it if coms gets broken with the antenna's on the launching aircraft. (It's a lot like the same software the AGM-88 HARM or the older AGM-45 Shrike use, when enemy radars realize there is an aircraft performing SEAD missions in the area they generally turn the radar on only in short bursts to make it difficult to narrow down their location so the missile memory remembers exactly where the radiation was coming from it detected and flies to it.) Antenna loss of sight which was common in the past due to where the antenna's are placed, if your not careful while turning or ascending while the missile is in flight it can lose the beam to tgt.)
switch down = Not currently assigned I will probably end up making this a button that goes through the weapons steps or something similar.

At the base of the hand control unit, the pinky button: Radar lock. First press gives you half lock, second press gives you full lock, third press deselects.
The only true two position switch on the hand control unit is the trigger. So I don't use the half lock and full lock assignment, I use the radar lock mapped to the pinky button that I hit twice for full lock.

The beaker bar on the warthog is supposed to be assigned to various hyd system controls that you hand over from the flight or combined side of the hyd pumps in a catastrophic failure. Since this isn't an A-10 I make the beaker bar the brakes during taxi (On the A-10 for DCS and the F14 I have for fsx the switch is assigned to its correct function).

The button on the right hand side of the HCU is my nose wheel steering when gear is down with weight on wheels and it also serves as the Aquire switch when the wheels are up(I think ill have to double check that in the air).

My trim hat does my trimming as it normally would in real life.

The next hat the gray one on the left side of the stick where your thumb goes, in real life would for ALL ALE-39 or ALE-47 systems would be (I haven't spent much time on survival and self defense systems in the F4 but If I remember correctly the E model had the older ALE-29 system which was still programmable but only with like 1 or 2 programs and don't quote me on this but I think the 29 only had semi-auto and manual, when tied to the RWR and missile launch detection system you still had to hit the release consent switches to allow it to pop chaff/flare.)

Hat down: Activate / deactivate auto program mode selected, Forward scrolls through the programs on the ale-39 or ale 47 control panel as does hitting back or aft on the button.
The right and left hat switches on this button typically moved you through semi auto and auto mode editing program screen for ale-47 or program edit input on the dial for ale-39 programmer.

Right now the cmds hat the gray one on the left I have it set up that a forward push gives me chaff and an aft pull on the hat gives me flare. I haven't dug into the cmds / ALE system yet so I will see if I will be assigning more keys to the hat or leaving it as is. I wont change it to do anything but function survival systems / cmds / mws because that hat controls my cmds/ALE/AAR/MWS functions on 3 other aircraft I sim in. FA18E (ALE-56 very new very nice), F14B Upgrade (ALE-47 was ALE-39 till mid 90's), and the S-3 Viking (ALE-47 also ALE-39 till early 2000's prior to retirement).

Sorry I wrote a lot more then I meant to,

Hope this helps

[JonathanBleeker]

Lol I hoped I made the Flaps Set function intuitive because it sure wasn't easy to develop. I have tried to explain how it works but I guess my comm skills need some work.

Kludo you got the weapons details correct. The station stepping command you spoke of is the HEAT REJ command in the AMS. It is only for stepping through the AIM-9s as the AIM-7s have a fixed firing order. AIM-7s are referred to as radar guided missiles in the -34 manuals I have because even though they aren't active, they are still guided by the F-4's radar .

I tried to explain elsewhere that the half and full lock assignments are only for special setups (eg if you have someone playing back seater with a warthog stick as the radar cursor controller) so for all other cases the single Radar Lock command is used as you described.

And yes the nose wheel steering will engage auto lock when in boresight mode. I don't know if you have a throttle unit but one other handy command is the Cage button which will cage the radar in boresight mode for a quick change to air to air config although the only way out is to move the weapon type knob on the armament panel to "C" or use the Air-to-Air button command available in the AMS (In reality, only the WSO can use the Air-to-Air button as it is in the rear cockpit).

Finally, the Air Refuelling Release command can also be used to cage/uncage the AIM-9s from the radar.

The chaff and flares are simple trigger commands as I couldn't get any info on the countermeasure systems in the real F-4E.

[Hamilton]

Sorry I wrote a lot more then I meant to,

Hope this helps

Wow! That certainly helps a lot!! Thank you so much Kludo.